Octuplets
I’m surprised by the negative response the California mom has gotten for having eight babies.
I can understand a little that people are negative that she would do that when she is not married and lives with her parents. Fine. I can see that.
But a lot of the uproar is that she has 14 kids now. Even if she was a multi-millionaire, married and a degreed teacher and psychologist and prepared for 14 kids, I bet people would be on her case.
Why? I have five kids (on purpose) and when we announced #5, I know plenty of people thought we were a bit wacko. But we love it. I have no problem with big families, but for some reason, society seems to. I know several young families with four kids, but five is pretty rare.
So what do you think about the octo-mom? Is she nuts because she is broke? Or is she nuts because of the big family?
And lets all agree that we hope she doesn’t take her most recent million dollar offer!
I hope she takes all of the money she can get because Im tired of working endless hours trying to make a living while still having to support idiots like her. Maybe she can find a way to support her self instead of all of us having to support her.
Look at all of the great people across this country who want to work and had a job but had it taken away becuase of an economic down turn our country has taken. But this women couldn’t support her six and now she’s somehow supposed to support and take care of 14. She didn’t even have a job. Maybe its foolish spending like this on people who just want to check for the govt so they don’t have to work.
At what point should she be held accountable for her actions?
Shane
Shane,
I completely agree with you. When Tim and I married we knew we wanted six kids (yes six), but by the time we had our third we knew that financially it was not a good decision so we stopped. That’s what she should have done. If she couldn’t afford to raise the ones she has now why should she have more. I’m about to say something that will probably start a huge uproar but it’s how I feel so here goes: She’s also teaching her children how to the use the system so it makes you wonder how many of her kids will go on to use the system after they are adults.
Dawn
Personal responsibility has completly left the building.
She saw those kids as a free ride, nothing more. Look at the seven that were born a few years ago. That family got tons of free baby stuff, free cable TV for 7 years, a new vehicle and the community built them a new house because the one they had was too small for all those kids etc,etc. Not to mention the free stuff they got when the kids turned one and Oprah threw them a party on her TV show. It’s no wonder the octo-mom wanted to have a bigger litter than anyone else in history. She should have gotten a pretty good payday out of those 8 babies. The way it is I’ll bet her ADC check is nothing to cry about.
I think you’re talking about that family from Iowa who had the seven babies? If so, I do believe I read that the parents got divorced recently.
The Jon and Kate plus 8 family looks pretty small compared to octo-mom. And they’re obviously doing well financially now. I think they’re on their third new house and he had hair implants and she wanted a boob job. Strange what money does to people. But they seemed to just happen into the situation rather than plan for the payout.
And the Duggars (spelling?) are also on TV with their 18-19 kids. But their situation seems unique too. Maybe part religious reasons, but they seem to pay their own way because they have some sort financial planning thing on their web site. I just watched their son get married after a courtship situation where he and his fiance didn’t even kiss. Unusual. Probably a nice concept for a parent to consider for their kids, but probably unrealistic.
I think the biggest problem is that she is getting aid for her oldest 3. I see nothing wrong with a single mother- more power to her. I just dont see how it is right for her to keep bring children into the world with out the ability to care of them.
The “father” of the children is finally stepping up because he thinks she is going to get some money and he wants it as well. The living conditions they are all in are nasty.
Currently there is 3 adults and 6 children living in a 3 bedroom house, and she is going to add 8 more to the mix. Its not that she wants a big family. Its her means of achiving it and her lack of preperation for bring the 8 home.
What surprises me most about this newest mother of octuplets (I dislike the labels people have used for her including Octopussy, and yes, Octomom, because, after all, she is a person and she has a name) is how much she seems to crave the attention. I know parents of large multiple births seem to give in to media interviews (probably for financial offers that they just can’t refuse), but Nadia Suleman seems to really enjoy the attention, and that is where she has gotten herself into trouble. If she would have stayed out of the spotlight to begin with, it would have helped. And these newest pictures of her having an expensive manicure and buying Starbucks coffee, or whatever it was, is further fueling the fire. So she probably could have avoided some of this attention.
On another note, I completely understand that taxpayers are not thrilled about paying to raise her children. But I wonder if people think about the affect their comments will have on her children when they are old enough to understand the situation?
People have said some really awful things. What about her kids who will have to go to school one day and risk being teased by classmates who have been briefed on the situation? Kids can be cruel. What about the self-esteem of these eight babies when they become old enough to understand that people are saying this woman should have been sterilized or how the state should be allowed to legally step in and reduce the number of fetuses? That while they were laying in the hospital hooked to all of those monitors, the public was furious that they were going to have to foot the bill to keep the babies alive?
Whether it is a valid statement or not is beside the point. Her children are innocent beings who did nothing wrong. And the horrible things people have said about them, and their mother, are only going to hurt them. So when people are talking about these 14 children, I wish some of them would use some tact and remember that there are 14 little kids who stand to get hurt by some of the public discussion.
On a related note, I find it terribly interesting that there are many people who are calling for legislation that would prevent poor or uninsured or women with many children from having IVF, multiple births, etc. I wonder how many of these people support a woman’s right to reproductive freedom? I understand that Nadia Suleman is an extreme case here, but when it comes right down to it, I think it is interesting that some people are calling for a “clause” that would limit the reproductive freedom of women in cases where a woman is poor or already has several children. I see both sides of the issue and don’t really have a clear stance, but I think it is interesting that some people who probably claim to stand for feminism are drawing the line with this mother of octuplets.
Has anyone mentioned “What the hell was the doctor thinking?” She needs to be held responsible, but the doctor could have said no I am not going to do this, it is ridiculous. Or is it just like the banks who knew the loans wouldn’t be able to be paid back, but didn’t care because they were making too much money.
We reap what we sow, and if actions don’t have dire consequences why should people care what risks they take or who they hurt.
I’m not surprised at all that people are outraged by this selfish, egomaniacal, attention-crazy, whackaloon nutjob.
I sometimes think of Nadya’s actions thusly: For instance, say there’s a guy that shoplifts from your grocery store. That’s not cool.
And then there’s Bernard Madoff (the guy behind the recent and largest investment scheme ever).
Both of them are stealing.
But I’m a lot madder at Bernie Madoff than I am the guy down the street stealing from the grocery store.
Nadya is the Bernard Madoff of parenting. She’s cheating, scamming, and passing all the pain and suffering on to others in order to accomodate her own selfish needs.
Cynthia,
So you think that we should have to feel sorry for those kids because of the decision that their mom made? Really!?! Your right that they are little kids and its not their choice, but in this case it was their moms choice.
And as far as the doctor. I guess in my opionion she is a service provider and the fact that sometimes they don’t have the choice. I personlly don’t think the doctor should hold any liability in the case for performing and operation that is perfect legal but maybe not moral.
I just can’t stand all of the poeple who have this poor ol me attitude and don’t even try to get a job or work. They want help from the good ol govt cause they know those soft asses in Washington will give it to them.
If our great grand parents didn’t have money or food thats the way it was. There was no help. Maybe all of us spoiled americans should have to learn these lessons the hard way. Maybe we should have to learn from our mistakes, not have someone to bail us out all of the time.
I spelled Nadya’s name wrong earlier. Eclectic had it right. My apologies. That’s what you get for going from memory and not looking it up.
As far as Kick Me Out goes, I don’t think you have to feel anything for those kids because of what their mother did. But I know I feel sorry for them. They were born into an embarrassing and questionable situation with no way to fix it, and they will be painfully reminded of their mother’s actions at some point in their lives. And I know that kids learn some of who they are and how they act from their parents.
More than anything else, I feel bad for these babies for the situation they have been put into. Period. They are the ones who stand to get hurt here. And what about those kids pictured in the house labeled as “filthy” and “disgusting”, which, by the way, I have only seen a few of those pictures, but I wouldn’t classify them as filthy. Messy, yes. But not filthy and disgusting. The kids pictured in the messy house are the ones who stand to get embarrassed in the future.
And for future reference, I am reading that the IVF doctor was a he, not a “she.”
I agree that Nadya is probably taking advantage of the system, and taxpayers are right to be angry. Yes, it was the children’s mother’s choice, not theirs. And, bottom line, I just feel bad for the little babies whose births caused death threats and outcry. Regardless of the circumstances, it’s not their fault, and I feel sorry for them because they will have to pay the price and live with the consequences of their mother’s actions.
So are you people saying that poor people shouldn’t have kids and if they get pregnant they should kill their unborn so we aren’t burdened?
Jen,
I’m definately not saying that. I do believe though, that one option would be (and this goes for all families receiving assistance) is that the government only allow assistance for a certain number of children or they max it out at a certain dollar amount regardless of the number children in the household. I really don’t know what that “golden number” should be, but I’m pretty sure I would want it lower than 14. I do not feel the government should be tellng women what to do with their bodies period, this includes how many children they want to give birth to or don’t want to give birth to, but limiting the amount of money they get is fine with me.
Dawn
Do states just get a certain amount of money that is allotted for assisting the poor regardless of the need? If so what does it matter if one mom gets help for 14 kids or 5 moms get help for their 2-3kids? I really don’t think she’s doing this for the money. Taking care of 14 kids will be very hard work. She must really love kids to have that many. Didn’t any of your great grand parents have a dozen kids? Just because society says you should only have 1.5 kids doesn’t mean a person should be ridiculed if they have more.
I’d bet 14 kids was as common two generations ago as five kids these days. Not that it is common, but not rare like these days.
Jen,
Do you really believe that there is no difference between one mom getting all the state funds available in a state as opposed to numerous moms getting a fair share of the state funds? I think there is a huge difference. In that scenario the state has the ability to help one family get out of a bad situation or to help numerous families get out of a bad situation. I have worked with ADC (in Nebraska) and you don’t just get a check each month, you do have to do certain things to get it like: look for a job, attend school, taking training classes, budgeting classes and if you are not doing those things you don’t get your check. It’s supposed to be a system that gets them off aid and supporting themselves (not that I think it always works). If you were to put all of that to one mom that would be such a waste not to help others become independent.
As far as coming from a large family, honestly, I do not. I come from a 2 child household, my dad is from a 4 child household my mom from a 3 child one, my paternal grandfather from a 2 child, my paternal grandmother a 3 child, my maternal grandfather a 2 child and my maternal grandmother a 3 child. But, I have no problems with large families and would absolutely love to have more kids but I can’t afford to so I don’t.
Dawn
Excellent point, Mrs Thalmann! But does she really need that many kids? It is all about education and common sense. This all goes back to the govt and the control it has on its people. There are those that think the govt has to support them and tell them how to live. They don’t use common sense when it comes to planning their financial budget. As much as it pains me to say this, I hate the idea that my tax money is going to support them. Honestly, I am more mad at our political officials that make WAY too much money and have the best healthcare and the best retirement. That is wasteful spending of our tax dollars. Make those ***holes buy into social security and make them go to the VA for healthcare and cut their salaries in half. Then we can address the welfare system in this country.
I do think it should be passed out with fairness, definitely. I was trying to say taxes are taxes doesn’t matter who’s getting the benefits we have to pay them regardless. So people being so upset with her doesn’t make sense. I do think people should work their way out of ‘the system’, and that is meant to be a ‘hand up’ not a ‘hand out’. I just don’t feel the hatred is necessary. There are a lot of things our taxes go towards but to be so pissed that it’s helping some innocent babies is crazy to me.
I agree.
I’m okay with MY money going to the babies, but it sounds to me like she is spending MY money on cosmetic surgery, and in vitro
http://www.celebitchy.com/35708/octuplet_mom_nadya_suleman_before_plastic_surgery_gets_food_stamps_child_disability/
I agree with you that people need help at different times in their lives, but don’t you think 14 kids is a little irresponsible when you don’t have a job. Your grandparents may have had 10+ kids, but I’ll bet you they paid for each and everyone of them too. Don’t know alot of people 70+ around here that took/take many handouts. (Besides farmers) just kidding.
Now stop and think how much it cost to have one kid. Now multiply it times 14. I am sure the costs are much more because of the In-vetro process and whatever else she had to do. Do you think she ever stopped to wonder how I was going to pay for this, what kind of job would I need to support 14 kids? These kids are not spaced out over 25 years to help soften the monetary blow either. Did she just figure she had a medical card and it didn’t matter? If she does get a job and starts paying taxes, she will still not make near enough to cover the amount of money she has taken from the state. With 14 kids, how can she ever hold a normal job and expect to pay for these kids. She is basically putting herself into lifelong poverty.
Now, maybe somebody will come along and give her a reality show and she will make a bunch of money, but she can’t or hopefully didn’t bank on it. If she did, then she is more messed up than I originally thought.
Wow, what a waste of my time.
This is just a small example of the many things that she will collect from the government. I believe I have heard numbers of up to 10-15 million dollars it will cost the state and federal government to pay for these kids by the time it is all said and done if things stay as is (meaning she doesn’t work or has very little income or support).
People are getting tired of paying for other peoples irresponsible behaviors. This is why I believe there is such a divide in this countries political scene. Half the people have liberal ideas and see these things as ok and the other half think they should pay their own way.
I’ve been banned by my own husband from this particular post.
If any of you caught my last post before he deleted it…those were my opinions and they do not reflect those of Dan or The Washington County News. 
!
Thank goodness this is a unusual situation. I doubt that there will be many people going out and doing the same thing.
We will pay for these kids and we have to pray and pray some more that they will receive the attention they need growing up.
It just make me tired thinking about it. :0
Dan….did you delete your own wife’s comments because you didn’t agree with her????????!!!!!!!!!! Seriously?!
No. I agreed with her actually. I deleted it by her request because I told her it was going to anger people, a lot of people.
She’s not actually banned. We were just joking about that because of the number of times I’ve been banned on blogs.
But on this particular topic, she is very protective of mothers and this octuplet mother is being attacked pretty bad, sometimes unnecessarily, and Jen can be like a polar bear momma who can get pretty angry pretty fast. That’s all.
I’m sure you all haven’t heard the last of her.
Im back kids . Little vaction in Vages was fun . And it looks like some of you had some fun when I was gone . I have to say about this so called mom the Angelina Jolie want to be look a like needs some help . We will ALL pay for the kids. What she and the Dr was wrong .I hope the Dr pays for this . He know that she was on her own and had tomeny kids as it is . She lives in a sh*t hole house and their is no way she can take cair of the kids. Com on how meny kids do you need ? I hope and pray the the state of Ca steps in on this and does something about this babe factory that is going on . I will read more and some of you know me I dont think that im done with this topic or the others that have been put up . It looks like I have a long day of reading in the AM LOL
You know I am just the opposite. She got her self in the mess I think she should have to find her way out of it.
Jen’s points are valid, but a killer has to take the full responsibility for their actions and I think she should have to as well. You know it is just the opposite but yet just the same. Wether you are taking someones life or bring them into it, you have the responsibility for your actions.
Do I think that poor people should be able to have kids? Sure, but they damn well better be able to feed them and take care of them. its a privilege to have kids not just a right. Why should my tax dollars go towards taking care of people who can’t make the right choices (what they can afford and can’t). If you don’t want to get pg then take the right steps in making sure you don’t. We will always have to pay taxes yes, but they should go to things that make this a better country, not help cripple it.
She made the choice, she should have to live up to that decision. Its not like it was unplanned.
The reason though why people like myself are so upset about this is, the 10-15 million she will suck out of the system could have actually went out to people who NEED the money for the reason these types of systems are in place. Not for people use and abuse the system.
I do feel for those kids though, and the life they are going to possibly have to live because of their moms horrible decision.
Shane
Jen from Dan’s computer:
How do you guys feel about soup kitchens? Should we let the drunk homeless starve because it’s their own fault they are alcoholics?
Are they homeless because they are drunks or are they drunks because they are homeless? I mean really. If they made the choice to be homeless and drunk, then that was their choice.
Why feed the drunk, homeless just food when they need help beyond food? Give’em a job and get them to help to fix the problem. If they don’t want to work and don’t want to quit drinking, what can you do? You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink.
Shane
State aide is only meant to be used as a temporary means to to help families get back on track. In this situation there is no way it would be able to be a temporary solution.
I keep hearing she has a right to a large family. She also has a responsibility to be able to take care of those kids. It’s not the state’s responsibility. She was on disability and was using that money to help fund her fertility treatments. That to me is wrong.
You can refer back to the old days when people raised large families but things were very different back then such as the economy, many of the state and federal program now in place to help families were non existent back even 30 -40 years ago. Most families had a least one parent home with the kids and let’s face it people lived on what they made doing without all of the extra things and they toughed it out.
I work with families most of them are in the “system” meaning they are receiving SRS help with vision card, Tanf, housing etc. All too often they feel like it’s owed to them. Not all but probably 75% of the families. This woman used her disability checks to pay for her fertility treatments.
She wanted more kids to make up for her bad childhood but has she stopped to consider what she is doing to the six kids she already has? In my job one of the biggest issues is parents having enough time to spend with their children. In my own personal life that is my issue as well. Working a full time job and a mother to 3. Individual time with each child is crucial for them to develop positive self esteem and self worth.
This woman should have been getting treatment to deal with the issues from her childhood instead of bringing more innocent children into the mix to temporarily soothe her pain. All to often people think that bringing a child into the world will make their problems better and she will get lots of attention but at some point the attention goes away and she is left raising 14 kids. Maybe she will really love them and great if she does but realistically she can’t support them. Sorry to say but State assistant ain’t much any way you look at it.
Premature babies are prone to more health and developmental delays which guess who pays for that besides the poor child? You guessed it – your tax dollars at work.
I don’t mean to sound cold-hearted because I love kids and I am all for big families but I also believe that if you bring kids into this world you need to be able to support them in all ways. State assistance was never set up or intended to raise families for a lifetime. It was set up to help families transition out of crisis situation and get back on their feet.
With that being said one other issue of concern to me is the interview that her parents have given. It’s very obvious this is not a close knit family and there is anger and resentment built up – Those kids will pay the price for the selfish decision that this mom made. That’s what irritates me the most.
Stephanie
I want to add one more thing – I agree with Dawn that there needs to be a cap on how much assistance a family can get. Too many people have more kids just so that they can stay in the system and receive Tanf and food stamps (vision card). I am basing this off of what I have observed in my line of work over the last seven years. Believe it or don’t but some families make this their “profession” living off of the system and enough is enough. States have to get tougher and quit making it so damn easy to stay in the system.
Hmmmmm……..
Acts 20:35 In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”
But if someone takes advantage of the ‘receiving’ …..I think that is where people have a problem. I know I do.
I was thinking last night, I don’t believe the world is anymore screwed up now than it was in the past. It’s just the fact that we have to see it everyday, all day on news media. People did stupid crazy unthinkable things hundreds and thousands of years ago, but most people didn’t know about it because it wasn’t recorded or re-told.
Like with the Octo-mom, technology has become a vehicle to take what I consider irresponsible/irrational behavior to a whole new level though.
Tim, I guess thats what I was trying to say. Its not that I mind giving to those who are truely in need and are greatful for it. Its when they receive and don’t make the most of what they have been given or even greatful for it. Its when people expect for it to be given that really burns my bottom.
Shane
Back to the lg families of days gone by… we all know the reason for those, no reliable birth control except… no sex. What was done in this case is WAY beyond different. I love babies, and would have loved more than the 4 I had, but reason, health and finances won out. As for remarks, they are not limited to the octo-mom. When I was pregnant with my 3rd someone locally actually asked me “Just how many children do you intend to have?”
I find myself in a tug-of -war with my beliefs over a woman’s rights vs. the general public footing the bill for all this. However, I’m not convinced she has the right to impose her desire for 14 children on the taxpayers pockets. Sounds like the smoking blog doesn’t it, Dan?
Tim, thank-you! That’s what I was trying to get at. No good will come from stoning the woman. Some people don’t make the right choices in life and as an American I would think it would be better to lead the person in the right direction than to say oh well you got yourself into this mess now get yourself out. If she’s working the system then she should maybe have to get psychiatric help then help her figure out how she can support herself.
Mom, I know how you feel. With five kids we often get the weird looks when we go places and people usually ask if we homeschool. I’m proud to have my five kids. If I wasn’t so sick with my pregnancies we would have probably had more. Why is it that most people’s first reaction to a large family is negative? I don’t think people see a large family and say “Oh, look at that large family isn’t that nice?”. Although, I will admit if we are somewhere and people watch us for awhile they do comment that we have a nice family. So, people are willing to accept a large family.
How many times do some people have to get hit in the head with a stone before they get the picture. Especially when it comes to decisions that affect so many others.
This case is a matter of ethics and personal responsibility for ones actions.
Its not like she accidentally had 14 kids when trying for 3 or 4. She and the doctor had to purposely implant those embryos into her uterus. Again thinking ethically did this person stop and think, can I handle 14 kids. Will each one of them get a fair shot in life? Can I support them?
If she can answer every question with a legitimate answer than fine, but if not maybe it wasn’t the best choice.
Than you get into the financial aspect. A classic case of liberalism versus conservatism. A liberal thinks the government should take the money from people to help others, while a conservative view is that each individual should be able to make the decision whether or not they will GIVE money to charities and organizations they see fit. With the idea these charities and organizations will be better stewards of their money than the government.
I’ve read very little on this story, actually, but I was told they implanted six, just like they had previously and never had more than two babies out of the effort. However, this time, all six worked with two of them splitting, making eight.
I don’t think she was shooting for eight babies, she was probably shooting for two more.
That’s just what I heard.
I dont think the state is going to give her all the kids with the way she is living now . One person can cair for 14 kids . She has no one to help her and by the way the hole world thinks about her doing this she is not going to get help . So yes we will feed the kids and everything that goes with it . On the news today she said that she did not want more kids . I had to go WHAT . Then why did she do it then . Dawn you have it right . Geting help is a temp thing not a life thing . Its mad to help you out until you get back on your feet . I would like to know how much money she is geting from the state with the ones she has now and if she gets all the kids how much will she get then .
Did you see her on Dr. Phil. Her mom flat out said she was nuts. Mom basically said she is obsessed with having children and tried to talk some sense into her.
Doesn’t she know mother knows best.
Come on if her mom and dad thinks she’s nuts, what does that really say.
I’m sure her parents will be helping with all the children, and I wonder how they feel about that. I have 9 grandchildren, and love them to pieces, but I wouldn’t want to have them all 24/7/365 in my home. The grandmother has raised her children and deserves a break. I’m not sure she will get one now. It’s a sad situation. I don’t believe in abortion at all, but I’m thinking this young woman has not thought this whole thing through or is not living in reality. She craves attention and is putting a great burden on her family and society to obtain it. JMHO.
She is nuts ………………… She has her hands full as it is . Why in the world would she want more . If she thinks she is going to get some book beal of some $1m interview she may be out of luck with it . She needs help as Dr Phil said and alot of others have to .NA said “I have 9 grandchildren, and love them to pieces, but I wouldn’t want to have them all 24/7/365 in my home” LMAO
I would have to say yes on that one to .
Did you see where a porn company offered her 1 million to do a series of videos.
that’s stupid… its not like she had sex to get these kids, they were injected into her?! My gosh, there are some sick losers out there!